Rosewicket Wicca Coven

hi ya'll! i just wanted to ask your opinion on initiation? do you think you have to be initiated to be wiccan? or should the religion be open for all those who wish to walk the path of the Goddess and the God?

personally i think that self-initiation is just as good as a formal one. pledging onself to a perticular path should be valid with or without a high priestess/priest. After all we are ourselves our own high priestess/priest

well, yes and no. I suspect it's a debate that may go one for a very logn time - it sure shows no signs of stopping. There are many covens and experienced wiccans that say you do need an initiatioon to be Wiccan. That's not my view, but I do see it's value. Wicca is mystery based, and largely group based as well. Thus, initiation is kidn of a no brainer.

That beinbg said, I'm a big believer in self-dedication. Self initiation is an oxymoron - the very definition of initiation requires anotehr to initiate you. However, initiation isn't always affective, and a lifelong dedication to spirituality and attuning yourself to the spirits and the earth always is.

I think both are very valid and important. I see both as beign equally right, however I'm very tired of the 'holier than thou' attitude many witches take on in the debate...Sometimes it's the older initiated Wiccans saying no one else is "authentic" enough these days, sometimes it's the "self-initiates" devaluign the myseteries...they both disturb me. I think it's bery important to find a middle ground between the two.

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i suppose so. people say that only a wiccan can create a wiccan, but i oncee read from a wise man, only the goddess and god can create a wiccan...whos better qualified?

Innitiation should be done by a group or elder into a group but belonging to a group does not make one a wiccan.  There should be a self initiation that is done at the start of your practice.  After a year and a day there should be a self dedication to the god and goddess. 

I think it boils down to if you are going to be a solitary or coven member. Because each coven is different, an innitiation should be done, but that does not mean that you are not a Wiccan until such time as an initiation is done.

I believe that one should deticate ones self to walking your own path and learning as much as you can about the life and practice, self detication could be a beautufil experience becasue you are creating your own vowls and deticating your whole being to serving out the rest of your life as a Wiccan. Detication isnt just phyical its very much spiritual as well for one cannot be complete without the other so if you desire this path dont just deticate one half and think thats good enouph one musy completely emerse onea self Body mind and spirit.  To be initiated is to deticate what you know and have learned to a coven of your chooseing and to keep the coven law, ethics and pratice within the covens walls.

Initiation is something that happens within. Whether it is conferred by others or not it means nothing if there is not a change in the person initiated. Only you and the gods really know when that  happens.

I was never 'initiated' by a coven/person, I simply discovered Wicca for myself, I agree with Hamadryad, that it happens within.

Hello and Merry Meet Everyone --

Yknow, i often see discussions like this on the Internet, with lots of different opinions; but few ever actually define or explain what an initiation or "Self Dedication" ARE, what they mean, and how they differ from each other. 

Many of those who use the term, "Self Initiation" actually mean something more like "SElf-Dedication", but there's a lot fo confusion on all of it, so i'd like to offer the following article i wrote to answer someone's questions --

On Dedication And Initiation

Why's, How's & Wherefores

© 2011 By Gaia_d@yahoo.com – Please don’t reproduce without permission.

1. PROBLEMS:

One of the problems with this topic, is that it's often raised by people who don't know about or understand the background principles, out of which this issue arises and on which it’s based -- They analyze it only from a very "democratic" notion of spirituality.

a. Democratic Ideas & Metaphysics:

Democracy is not just a political philosophy; it's a philosophy of life that’s seeped into many areas of our culture. Our educational system, for just one single example, is based upon the very democratic idea that knowledge is (or should be) available to everyone -- partly because our system of government (a democratic republic) functions best if the general public is well educated.

However, metaphysics (of which religion in general and Wicca in particular, are both parts) is not and has never been democratic. Metaphysics has always been based on the idea(s) that:

a) One does not give power to someone who is ill-equipped to use it wisely or profitably;

b) there are some who are more willing, able and motivated to do the hard work that's required to obtain knowledge, wisdom, and "enlightenment" -- and they are more inclined to USE the attendant powers and knowledge, wisely.

There have always been (metaphysical) "Mysteries" or secrets that have been withheld from the general public. -- This is where we get the very word, "Occult" -- which of course means "hidden". This is as true in Christianity as it is in some of the more "esoteric" systems of Metaphysics. For example, in (traditional) Kabbalah study, one could not even begin to study it until one was at least 40 years old and married with children -- Please consider for a moment, why that might be ......

2. WICCA

INITIATION:

Now, let’s discuss a bit about Initiation, and what it really is.

Here’s an article on Initiation from Ellen Cannon Reed’s wonderful book (which i highly recommend!), “The Heart of Wicca”:

Some time ago, a young woman wrote on a computer bulletin board system that she had had a vision of the Goddess in which the Goddess seemed to accept her as Her child.

"Was this," she asked, "an initiation?"

Message after message assured her that it was. One, however, said, 'I don't know. How is your life different? How are you different?"

That person knows what initiation is.

What is it? …Initiation is a spiritual experience by which one becomes aware of the Mysteries. It is not a ceremony. It is not a vision. It is not dedication. It is not an event; it is a process.

In his book, “Men and the Waters of Life”, Michael Meade says this about initiation: ~ Initiatory events are those that mark a man's or woman's life forever, that pull a person deeper into life than they would normally choose to go. Initiatory events are those that define who a person is, or cause some power to erupt from them, or strip everything from them until all that is left is their essential self ...there is departure from daily life, a suffering of ordeals and dramaticepisodes, and a return as a marked and different person. Initation is the dramatic way the psyche shifts ground and orientation of an individual or group.'

(Michael Meade, Men and the Water of Life (San Francisco: HarperSan-Francisco, 1993), p. 11.

That is what the response to the question about the vision meant. A vision of the Goddess is lovely, but is it life-changing? It could be, but was it? Make no mistake, even choosing to pursue an initiatory path will be life-changing.

So what of the ceremony known as initiation, the one a coven might bestow some-where along the line in your membership?

In many traditions, this ceremony represents a number of things: It means you have completed the course of study they require. It means you become a member of their Inner Circle, that you are ready to take your place in the priesthood with all the responsibilities that entails. It means that the leaders of the coven acknowledge that, to the best of their abilities to know, the Initiate has undergone the spiritual experience described above. Initiation can happen to those of any religion. It is a step in spiritual growth."

(End quoted material by Ellen Cannon Reed, from “The Heart of Wicca”)

Here is another excellent quote that helps us understand about initiation:

“Properly conferred, a Wiccan initiation includes a transformative personal experience the nature of which is ineffable. That is to say, it cannot be readily described. Such experiences in religious or spiritual settings are often termed "Mysteries." -- Thus the common observation that Wicca is "an initatory Mystery religion."

Part of the purpose in the long training period that normally leads up to one's first initiation is to try to put the candidate into the proper frame of mind to undergo and derive the fullest benefit from the transformative experience." -- (quote from "Brocktn",

http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=4&nav=messages&webtag=abpaganwiccan&tid=5984

So Initiation is a transformational experience, which “shifts ground” in the Psyche, and opens up new ways of knowing, perceiving, experiencing, in the life of the Initiate – Such thatthey are able to experience and comprehend the Mysteries.

4. STAGES of INITIATION:

An Initiation is a profound symbolic challenge, a *death* of the old self, a *rebirth* into new life as a duly authorized and empowered "Witch and Priest/ess" --

2. Symbolic Death: You must experience a symbolic death of your old self; and this is not something that can really be done by yourself.

3. Rebirth: You experience a rebirth into new life -- and again, just as someone cannot give birth to himself, neither can he "rebirth" himself.

4. A formal introduction to the "Powers that Be" (and not just the ones on Angel or Buffy <*g*> -- the Guardians, Watchtowers, Elementals, etc -- as a newly and duly initiated "Priest/ess and Witch". And as in any introduction, this must be done by someone already well and officially “acquainted” with both "sides" of the introduction.

5. In advanced Initiations, there is a transfer of (Spiritual) Power and Authority: You receive a transfer of spiritual power and authority from those who already have it -- Obviously, this is not something you can do for yourself, it must be done by someone already *possessing* that authority.

,6. Access to the Inner Mysteries of that Tradition: Many beginners just don't realize that the information that is readily available -- in books, articles, online discussions, etc - -is only a fraction of the spiritual truths and Powers that are (part of) Wicca.

[NOTE: An Initiated Wiccan (even First Degree) is not merely a "member" of Wicca, rather, s/he is a Priest/ess, and therefore CLERGY);

An initiated Wiccan becomes a "Priest/ess and Witch" (both male and female Wiccans are "witches") and therefore they become "Clergy" . With sucessive Initiations (if they choose to pursue such) they take on more responsibilities to serve the Gods of Wicca, and bless Their Children.

Thus, Dedication and Initiation are *not* the same thing. It is a shame that so many (even well-known writers) fail to clearly distinguish between them, or confuse them, so that many beginners are given mistaken or confused information.

While it is appropriate for someone to DEDICATE her or him self, INITIATION is something that is done *TO* a person. A person cannot birth himself into new life; a person cannot offer a truly sincere, “stop-your-heart” challenge to him self; a person cannot perform an introduction to the “Powers That Be” for himself; a person cannot make him/her self, a “newly and duly authorized Priest/ess”, and a person cannot bequeath power and authority to him/her self.

NOW, PLEASE NOTE:  I did NOT say that one couldn't worship the Gods, have a perfectly wonderful and fulfilling spiritual life / practice, or anything of the kind -- without INitiation.  They most certainly can -- and they don't need to be Wiccan to do so!

But if someone wants to be Wiccan,  they cannot just presume to take unto themselves the title of Wiccan Priest or Priestess, without the proper training and Initation,  anymore than one can just presume to take unto himself the title of "Medical Doctor" without training and education -- no matter how much he feels 'called' to be a Doctor, no matter how gifted his healing talents might be, and no matter how devoted he may be to the idea.  If he wants the titles, he must do what is required to obtain them legitimately.

Yes, it's unfortunately very true that even some pretty decent authors have added to the confusion about this, by using terms like "Self-Initiation".  But i'm sorry -- "Self-Initiation" is an oxymoron, there is no such thing.

Self Dedication is a the way one demonstrates ones intention to go on a spiritual Quest (so to speak) and find or create one's spiritual Path; it's a promise to seek honestly, diligently and sincerely; to apply the principles and the "light and knowledge"  one learns along the way.  That is NOT Initiation, it's Dedication.  However, correctly understood, there is no such thing as "Self-Initiation", it's a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron.

As i said above, it has always been a key feature of metaphysical/ spiritual paths, that there are some things reserved for those who are prepared and able to receive them, and use them wisely and profitably.

This is NOT -- as some (evidently insecure) folks have suggested -- because of any spiritual exclusivity, or desire to keep others "down". Rather, it's to prevent such information from falling into the hands of those who are unprepared to use it correctly, to prevent it from being disrespected or perverted, and to prevent it from being given to those for whom it would prove a curse rather than a blessing..

As i said above -- Wicca has always been an Initiatory religion, and a Mystery religion -- and i hope it's a bit clearer why those two things go together *smile*. 

Initiation is also generally about acceptance and adoption into a group, as family. A lot of people who are in initiatory paths, consider their coven-mates to be family -- Including of the "call at 3am in an emergency" sort. And the sort you may not always agree with, but you love, and work with, and sort things out with, because they matter like that.

You can't adopt yourself into a family. You can't force other people to adopt you. Part of the process is about forming mutual connections with those people, and that tradition, and that particular group, and so on.

IMO, and in the opinion of many experienced Wiccans, it is well worth the effort, to seek training and initiation from a good , well-trained and experienced High Priest (HP) or High Priestess (HPS).

. There are some things that are extremely difficult if not impossible to learn on one's own: for just one small but important example, it is very difficult to learn how to manage, build and direct energy completely on one's own or out of a book. It's very difficult to honestly evaluate yourself, your strengths, weaknesses, gifts, etc; and to become aware of and work through your "Shadow" -- which by definition, are the personal characteristics / qualities we hide from ourselves. These things and many others are much easier to learn and do properly, with a good, well-trained, experienced teacher.

It's important to remember, however, that Ultimately, it is the God(s) and Goddess(es) who initiate Their own, and a HP/HPS can only confirm / affirm that which the God/dess(es) do or have done. THEY [the God(s) and Goddess(es)] determine who is (and is not!) an authentic Witch.

5. FINDING TEACHERS:

FInally, for anyone who might want to pursue finding a teacher: check out the following resources:

a) Witchvox: http://www.witchvox.com  -

Witchvox is a wonderful internet resource for information and referral.

b) Covenant of the Goddess (CoG) : www.CoGWEB.org

Covenant of the Goddess is an international, legally-recognized organization

of covens, clergy and solitaries, with local Councils all over, in most population

centers. It offers a wide variety of services for/to the Wiccan community,

including sponsoring festivals, workshops and programs; credentialing Elders

and Clergy; and maintaining a resource and referral list.

c) Circle Sanctuary: www.circlesanctuary.org

Circle Sanctuary is a working Pagan farm, sanctuary and organization that publishes the magazine "Circle Network News," sponsors festivals and conferences, and offers information and resource referrals.

d) The Unitarian-Universalist Church sponsors the Covenant of Unitarian-Universalist Pagans (CUUPS) - http://www.cuups.org/

e) Check with local organizations, groups, bookstores, etc – Places where Pagans are likely to be found. You might even consider volunteering at one or two.  Here are a few ideas:

1) Conservation and Preservation Groups, Nature Conservancies, etc;

2) Historical Re-enactment groups, like the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism);

3) Humane Society, no-kill shelters,  and other animal protection groups.   ;

4) Rock, crystal and Lapidary Shops and Shows; 

5) Museum, Zoo, Aquarium and Botanical Garden organizations and support groups;

I hope this is helpful --(and again, apologize for the long length!)  Blessings ~Gaia

Exzellent Gaia! I,think so to! 

Blessings Artemisia Morgana